好書介紹

lvrunner

剛剛睇完這書, 覺得對改善跑資(running form), 防止脚患很有幫助. 作者教大家怎樣用類此yoga,太極嘅概念黎跑步,圖文並茂. 值得一看.
書名: CHI RUNNING ~ A Revolutionary Approached To Effectless, Injury-Free Running
作者:  Danny Dreyer with Katherine Dreyer

redred

e, 幾有興趣喎
中醫都叫我去學太極, 不過無時間呀
睇左lee 本書,咪學到唔少野

kaevin

I like pose running more than chi running...
chi running is not about tai chi....

The inventor of chi running was a student of pose running... they are mostly similar but have little difference...

[ 本帖最後由 kaevin 於 2008-7-8 12:27 編輯 ]

lvrunner

原帖由 kennethwat 於 2008-7-7 19:43 發表

                               
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ching 此書有冇出過中文版？

唔知呀Ken兄!

lvrunner

原帖由 kaevin 於 2008-7-7 20:22 發表

                               
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I like pose running more than chi running...
chi running is not about tai chi....

The inventor of chi running was a student of pose running... they are mostly similar but have little difference...

From NPR (National Public Radio)

".....ChiRunning and Pose share the same focus of leaning to engage the pull of gravity for propulsion. That is about the only similarity I can see. With the Pose Method, Dr. Romanov has runners land on their forefoot, while ChiRunning has runners land on their mid-foot. Landing on your forefoot requires your entire body to be momentarily supported by your calf, which, for long-distance runners, is more than that muscle was designed to do.
The Pose Method uses the leg more. With ChiRunning, we have the runners relax their lower legs as much as possible at all times in order to reduce work to the lower legs (which is one of the main areas where running injuries occur). We have runners lengthen their stride and increase their lean to run faster, versus picking up the speed of their stride. If your cadence picks up, as I think the Pose Method advises, it takes more leg muscle to turn your legs over faster. That's OK if you're a sprinter, and your race is over in 10 seconds. But ChiRunning teaches long-distance runners to rely more on your lean than your legs, and ultimately, it saves your legs .........."

Seems like Pose is for sprinters and Chi is for long distance runners.

[ 本帖最後由 lvrunner 於 2008-7-7 20:43 編輯 ]

kaevin

I don't know who wrote the passage... nor I have studied deeply in pose/chi running... (Actually I am more convinced by Gordon Pirie's approach).

The following is only my own option...

"Landing on your forefoot requires your entire body to be momentarily supported by your calf, which, for long-distance runners, is more than that muscle was designed to do. "

I don't think I have to "momentarily supported by my calf." Actually I really lands on the ball of foot. but then I will also touch with the mid foot. my calf works, but not to support myself entirely. And it is like a shock absorb motion. May be energy-wise it may not be the most efficient (you use energy to do the damping, to absorb shock). But I think it is good to do that because I will cause less damage to my joints and decrease injuries (= more training = better times).

I think the one who wrote the script did not understand the guys wont lands on the forefoot rigidly (imagine that will look like you are running with invisible high heels on your foot).

To sum up. My position about chi and pose is... may be they are both not ideal? My choice is somewhere between them. Landing on ball of foot with a somewhat relaxed calf, and support with the mid-foot before "push off"/removing the foot from ground (well, both pose and chi doesnt support the idea of push off...).

Just my 2 cents.

This is an interesting topic.

[ 本帖最後由 kaevin 於 2008-7-8 16:14 編輯 ]

spmho

大家不如分享一下腳掌落地既問題

我自己都有少少猶豫，到底應該用前腳掌落地定腳跟落地先

認同前腳落地既跑手，就會話咁跑會快，但小腿、脛骨容易傷，一些中長距離既跑手支持
認同腳跟落地先既跑手，就會話咁跑可以好好利用鞋既吸震，減低受傷機會，不過就會回腳慢少少，李嘉綸十分支持呢種跑法

大家點睇？

clerkb

你咪答左law

你既進步空間吾係在用腳尖到, 是嗎 ? 吾好太急功了. 在健康方面更不應用腳尖

[ 本帖最後由 clerkb 於 2008-7-8 18:16 編輯 ]

kaevin

腳前方 (o個舊肉) 著地... =/= 腳尖 (腳指尖..)

著地時, 腳跟微微屈摺 (拉近腳背與小腿前方o既距離), 減小撞擊力, 但相對對小腿後方肌肉形成拉扯... 膝頭微微屈摺, hip 與腳跟距離減小, 進一步減小撞擊力...

我唔明點解o的人成日認為前掌著地會"脛骨容易傷"... 腳跟屈摺時吸收o既力一定唔會小過你鞋爭好多... 又何來"脛骨容易傷"?

唯一我認為有可能風險大o左o既傷係 Achilles tendinitis... 原因係吸收撞擊力時小腿後方肌肉"成"受o個o下拉扯...

不過我寧可拉扯肌肉 多過要關節受撞擊力...

個人覺得援振力最大係膝頭微微屈摺... 之後就到 腳跟, 同足弓... ... 我就唔多信鞋會好過以上太多...

[ 本帖最後由 kaevin 於 2008-7-8 21:07 編輯 ]

kaevin

And dont get me wrong, I am not bashing the runners who lands on their heels...

As long as their heels are only slightly touching the ground (only bare partial weight), then transfer to mid foot  and to forefoot quickly, they are also very efficient.

But if a runner land hardly on the heel and think the shock absorb material in the heel of the shoe will save him/her, then I think each step the runner run is towards the destruction of his/her own joints.

力

李嘉綸跑步心得

https://www.longrun.hk/forum/vie ... &extra=page%3D1

lvrunner

I always land on my mid-foot anyways.  If you run 5 to 6 marathons a year, you will know what I mean.  


Here is their website:  http://www.chirunning.com/shop/home.php

[ 本帖最後由 lvrunner 於 2008-7-8 16:14 編輯 ]

spmho

我剛剛行過page one.....見到本書百三蚊就買左返黎睇....
睇下睇完有咩得著先

力

Stanley C-hing,
Awaiting your comment for this book

spmho

基本上我睇完一次本書，內容唔只lvrunner講咁少既，不過唔詳細講。
本書係值得一睇既，因為係俾初學者睇，不過就要睇英文。

其實佢個「chi-running」係李嘉綸講o個種跑法：身傾前、手臂成直角、小腳直角向後踢
不過呢個作者就建議用「前腳掌」(即係由腳指到腳中間成個area)落地(李嘉綸就鍾意腳跟落地先)
佢話呢個跑法係用自然力量 - 地心吸力去跑，可以唔駛用一d唔係for跑步既肌肉，減少無謂用力，減低傷既機會，甚至可以講唔會傷，長跑長有。

就作者講「chi-running」呢樣野，我看係俾美國人睇，因為佢地比較多立直提腳跑，但對亞洲人黎講就無新意。

不過本書好多講練習心理、比賽心理、練跑上山落山等既野
書裏面有幾樣唔錯既練習心理可同大家分享一下：
1. 跑步最重要係練好跑姿，然後再練距離，最後先理速度。有一個好既form，速度自然黎；如果連做距離時，都可以做到個form，咁跑步就真係easy。你就跑得幾快，但個form錯既，唔駛幾耐就會傷。
2. 作者認為大家死訂一個什麼target時間都無用，最重要係平時大家set個training plan做得好唔好，功課做得足唔足，比賽只係一個test，pb到只係一個cake
3. 大家做到pb以為好，但其實做到peak performance先係最好。peak performace係指在一次跑步中，你能夠好smooth、無難度咁做到你平時既野，這個時間可以係一次練習，可以係比賽。

lvrunner

Thanks Stanley hing for your detailed translation!!  May be next time if I have another book recommedation, you can read it first and then translate the contents for all of us, like doing a mini book report .  How's that.

Have you heard of a book called "Lore of Running by Tim Noakes" before?  This is another excellent book to read and digest but very technical (medical physiology and biochemistry materials).  It's only 930+ pages !!

因為係俾初學者睇........

咁又未必嘅, 應該話係適合所有想有improvement嘅runners睇.  

1. 跑步最重要係練好跑姿，然後再練距離，最後先理速度。有一個好既form，速度自然黎；如果連做距離時，都可以做到個form，咁跑步就真係easy。你就跑得幾快，但個form錯既，唔駛幾耐就會傷。
2. 作者認為大家死訂一個什麼target時間都無用，最重要係平時大家set個training plan做得好唔好，功課做得足唔足，比賽只係一個test，pb到只係一個cake.......

too bad, not too many runners (especially beginners) have these insights.  End result ~ major burnout!!!

Who is 李嘉綸?

BTW, the book also comes with DVD and VHS formats.  You can even join their discussion forum too.

[ 本帖最後由 lvrunner 於 2008-7-14 19:07 編輯 ]

spmho

原帖由 lvrunner 於 2008-7-15 01:56 發表

                               
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Thanks Stanley hing for your detailed translation!!  May be next time if I have another book recommedation, you can read it first and then translate the contents for all of us, like doing a mini book report .  How's that.

Have you heard of a book called "Lore of Running by Tim Noakes" before?  This is another excellent book to read and digest but very technical.  It's only 930+ pages !!
...

lv hing, it's not easy to finish a book, especially not in my mother language.
If I can finish one, of course, I don't mind share some good points here.

Sorry, not yet heard of "Lore of Running by Tim Noakes". May try to see if it is avaliable in HK.
Actually, running books in HK is not common, no matter in English or Chinese.
Those chinese one, I would say, was suck. Not many good one. They are mainly written by Taiwanee or Japanese, but translated by Taiwanee.
For those english books avaliable, price is expensive and stock is limit. And sometimes I think english one is written for American, we need to filter those useful stiff for Asian.

I even tried to find "Competitive Runner's Handbook by Bob Glover" you recommended, only 1 broken book avaliable for stock, but seems that the content is good.

咁又未必嘅, 應該話係適合所有想有improvement嘅runners睇.

yes, you are right. thanks for your correction.

Who is 李嘉綸?

李嘉綸係香港一位資深既跑手教練，佢以前同而家都仲有跑，不過而家主力教跑
佢話自己用左d退休金去開左下面呢個跑步練習中心
http://www.hkrunningcamp.com

力

Hi Stanley hing,
Thanks for your report! I will go to buy one

lvrunner

Here is the back of the book.

[ 本帖最後由 lvrunner 於 2008-7-14 20:08 編輯 ]